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R2RB Podcast - Women Entrepreneurs and Indie Artists Series
Where Indie Artists and Women Entrepreneurs share their journeys.
We sit down with indie musicians from diverse genres, shedding light on their personal and professional experiences. From the euphoria of their first gigs to the challenges of carving a niche in the industry, R2RB Podcast is your backstage pass to these rising stars' raw and unfiltered narratives.
We also embark on a journey of Women Entrepreneurs and share their inspiration, amplifying the voices and stories of remarkable women entrepreneurs. Join us as we delve into the worlds of visionary leaders, innovators, and trailblazers who are rewriting the rules and reshaping industries.
We look forward to sharing your journey!
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R2RB Podcast - Women Entrepreneurs and Indie Artists Series
Subtlety - Tracey's Journey to Indie Music Artist.
Tracy of Subtlety shares her insights on maintaining authenticity as an indie artist and finding inspiration in unexpected places. The discussion explores the challenges faced in the music industry, the importance of collaboration, and valuable advice for aspiring artists.
• Tracy discusses the importance of integrity in music
• Unique inspiration arises from a cemetery experience
• The significance behind the name 'Subtlety'
• Challenges and rewards of being an indie artist
• The first experience with a talent show and its impact
• Learning to play piano led to artistic evolution
• Exploring the power of collaboration in music
• Advice for new artists: stay true to your voice and write authentically
https://linktr.ee/deblamotta
Hi, welcome to the R2RB Indie Artist Podcast. And today I have with me Tracy of Subtlety and thank you so much for being here with me today. And Tracy is all the way over around the world underneath in Australia. How are you, Tracy?
Speaker 2:She couldn't get any further away, could she? No, we stay out of trouble under here.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll go with that, all right. So I like I like to ask two questions to get us warmed up. If you could have any superpower to help you make music, what would it be and why?
Speaker 2:um, integrity, I suppose, okay, it's a big one, yeah, it rules everything. I think integrity in in your own music and I suppose how you portray yourself and why you're doing music, what the reasons are for and what you want to gain out of it. I suppose yeah, because there's a lot of things that you can sort of get sucked into in the indie community, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I suppose, just being true to yourself and why you're doing music, what the reasons are, I suppose, and that's really hard to stick by constantly because it's challenged all the time all the time yeah, from um outside forces absolutely yes whether it groups or streaming services or marketing people um, there's a lot to navigate as an indie artist, for sure there is, and I and I don't think you know the fans or the people that listen to the music who aren't involved in the other side of it all realize all the people and, like you just said, the marketing and and what have you is producing and all the people that you touch bases with. It's just I sometimes don't know how you all navigate everything that you have to navigate and make it come out as beautiful as you do oh, thank you, thank you, you're welcome All right you have to know when to take a break, Deborah, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:Yes, and that's true, very true, and I think that goes for anybody, you know, whatever their walk is with their lives. We all have to take that break, otherwise I think you just get burnt out, and that's when, when the big problems happen yes, you do yeah, yep, all right. So what's the most unusual or unexpected place you have ever found inspiration for a song?
Speaker 2:a cemetery really. Yeah, cemeteries are wonderful because you can sit there for ages and you know, just see what's happened to people, and you know it's very peaceful and you can think about a lot of things and I don't know. Cemeteries sometimes put things in perspective for you, I think, and I did write purple circles from there.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I just got inspiration from it and the words, my thoughts just flowed. And then the melody came very soon after, because the melody is where the emotion comes from. So it was very, quite quick to write that one.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, wow. How did you come about for the name Sublety?
Speaker 2:um, it was actually my sister, I, we were sort of um. I was asking her for help with what sort of name I could be when I just decided to sort of um, start doing my own music, and she said you know well, what sort of music do you want to do? And I said, um, oh, I think it's going to be pretty subtle, you know. And uh, she goes. Well, why don't you call it subtlety? It really encompasses, I think, my music and me, because I do sort of ballady, sort of music.
Speaker 2:A lot of my music is, you know, quite pensive and thoughtful. Yes, and I thought it was a good name, a good description for it and for me. I don't like to. I like to get messages across, subtlety, in a subtle way, and also I really like to leave the lyrics and the song up to what the listener wants to get out of it. I don't like to. Really, the only people that really know what my songs are about from my perspective are probably my collaborators. But for everybody else that listens to the songs, I don't want to tell them what to think when they listen to it.
Speaker 1:So you leave it up to them.
Speaker 2:I want them to, you know.
Speaker 1:Interpret their own way.
Speaker 2:Get something out of it for themselves, whether they can relate to it, yeah, but I don't like to tell people what to think when they listen to my music. It's what they need out of it really. I like that Getting what I need. So you get what you need. You know, I like to give in that way.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 2:I'm a giver.
Speaker 1:You are a giver with your music, absolutely. Were you looking to just be an independent artist from the get-go? Yes, yeah, okay to go along with that. So would you ever sign with an independent label, or a label at all, or are you just going to stay true to yourself?
Speaker 2:That's the worst thing you can do. I think the worst thing you can do is sign to someone. That's just my personal opinion. I think it's the main problem, because you get these artists who are told to release something every month where's the quality in that? And you're doing music for what you think other people want to hear. You're doing music for what you think other people want to hear, what record companies want to hear and what the radio wants to hear.
Speaker 2:So, to stay true to yourself, I don't believe you should do it for the listener. I think it should just come from you. It's your art, it belongs to you and it'll keep belonging to you if it comes from you, Start getting like money involved and people in high. You know computer chairs and you're in trouble, I think. I think you know. You only have to look at the tabloids to look at the commercial artist's suffer. I do respect Taylor Swift, though, because I think she's got to a point where she can actually dictate what she does. There's not many like her, though, that have got to that level that can do that.
Speaker 2:No I think Adele's pretty good at it as well. I think she just says, no, I'm taking a year off. I think you have to be really good at what you do to have people where you want them, I think.
Speaker 1:And, like you said, staying true to yourself and those that are able or at that point that's what they believe in themselves, you know 100% to be able to continue to. You know, put together the beautiful music that you do and the other artists that do and the indie artist. You know it's. It's not, it's not easy. I know from speaking to other indie artists that you know the, the work, you know you have your passion and you have your love for your music and what you put together is wonderful. But there are other aspects to it as an independent artist that you still have to do yourself. Does that part of it get down? Get you down?
Speaker 2:sometimes it's a challenge, and it's funny because to be an indie artist I mean, most artists really are really sensitive souls, I think, with something to say so it's not really the place for them really, because you have to have a sensitive soul to put yourself out there and want to express what you're feeling, but at the same time, you've got to be the strongest person to navigate everything else exactly as well. Yes, so that's why, um, especially online, I do try and support people that I get a vibe that they might be struggling with it, or, uh, the young ones that start out. I try and encourage them to to just keep being themselves, because you know you don't have to give everything away. You can keep some things for yourself. I think it's important to protect yourself and show up for yourself.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And the new indie artists coming into, you know, into this field, into the indie community, so many of them lately have, you know, jumped in and, you know, given it their all, but they, they. Then they don't see the results that they are looking for sometimes and they just like I'm done. I can't do this Because if you're in it, you're in it for the long haul.
Speaker 1:From what I understand that, you have to give it time, you have to cultivate it, you have to work at it and you know it is a business and it's not a business. You don't want to look at it as a business, but as an indie artist you are it, you're everything, you are your own marketing company or producer and down the line with everything else involved. So I'm so glad that so many of you, um, you know, reach out to the younger indie artists, because I know so many of them are struggling, uh, especially, I think, at the end of the year, for, you know, this time of year, for so many people they look back and say you know, what have I accomplished? Have I accomplished enough? So, having somebody like you reaching out, um, kudos to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you. Yeah, there's a lot to navigate and I think people do it for the wrong reasons. I think too, because if you're an artist and you feel that you have a constant desire to express yourself and interpret what you see in the world, whether it's through music or poetry, it's not something you pick up to sort of gain something from. I don't think I mean it's nice to have the accolades and to have people obviously say that they love your music. I mean it's such a boost to your ego and it helps you keep going and you feel really good when people appreciate your work. A true artist, I think, does it because they have to. I do it because I have to do it and it's not because I want to do concerts and stay in a hotel room by myself all night after it. Do you know what I mean? I'm not interested in doing that.
Speaker 2:A lot of people get into trouble from things like that. I'm quite happy to just have the audience. That I do is enough for me.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And I don't know. I think you get the best product out of that too. You're not worried about all that stuff, and usually you'll find that the song will just take off Exactly. You just go. Well, I'm glad you like it, that's it and you write your next one right, you know that you can stay grounded that way, I think I agree, I totally agree, absolutely.
Speaker 1:You were nominated in 2023 in the pop category for the sa music award, a number one song on the pulse fm discovery show, and you were included in the top 100 indie music artists in 2023. You also appeared on a television show, new Faces, when you were 18. Tell me about that. Tell me about that New Faces.
Speaker 2:I was actually 22. I went for an audition when I was 18 as a backup singer, because my friend made me and I had been singing on stage for four years and singing in restaurants and things like that. On stage for four years and singing in restaurants and things like that yeah, I just thought, well, I might, you know, give this a shot. What you do when you're young, you think you know the world's at your feet and you think, oh, I can do this, and I can do that.
Speaker 2:So I went for an audition. It was it's sort of back in those days. It's sort of like it's just like the talent shows you see on TV. It's a bit like American Idol, oh cool, sort of. It has evolved since New Faces, but it's the same deal.
Speaker 2:I went for an audition and I did Alana Miles' Black Velvet. We're going back a little bit here. They said thank you very much. I left there not thinking anything of it. I got a phone call a week later and they asked me to come on the show and do a song and I and I said yeah, okay, that'd be great. And they said, but there's only one problem. The show that we're putting you on Black Velvet has already been taped by another singer and I had two days to prepare, rehearse with the band and get a flight to Sydney in two days. I had to do that. I had no idea what I was going to sing. So what I did, she was very popular. She was very popular at the time. I really like the b-side of Black Velvet because I had the thing I had the single.
Speaker 2:I had the single on the flip side of that single. Well, you know, when we had singles, right it was a song called If you Want To and it was a really good song. It was really upbeat and I really liked it and it was within my range and so I took it to the musicians at the studio and I said this is the song. No one had ever heard of it before.
Speaker 1:Crazy.
Speaker 2:And I'm so glad they went with it, because usually you'd think on a television show they'd go oh, we can't do that. Nobody knows the song, it's just going to go down like a lead balloon exactly practice and practice.
Speaker 2:I'm quite good at learning lyrics. My memory's quite good with lyrics. I learned the song in two days. I rehearsed. I had two goes at rehearsals with the band, all the stage lights, and the show was going to be that night. I did the song. I didn't mess up Extremely frightening. I can only imagine the adrenaline I got after.
Speaker 2:It was like, oh, can we do that again? It was fantastic because you've got an audience clapping and you've got these big stage lights on you and the panel absolutely loved it. We've never heard that song before. And Molly Meldrum was on the panel and he said he's promoted a lot of artists out of Australia into America and things like that. He had his own show called Countdown in Australia in the 80s and he was on the panel and he said good job, tracy. And he said but you know, it's a fantastic song, I've never heard that before. And I said it's Alana Miles and he goes I've never heard her release that. And I said she hasn't. She hasn't released it, it's the B-side of black velvet. And he said well, you know, good on you for having the courage to do a song that isn't released. So it sounded like an original song to them. No, wow, like my own song. They thought it was my own song.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's so cool, it was so funny, but as luck would have it, I came fourth on the night wow yes a jazz. A jazz singer came third.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:A dancer came second. They were all very good, oh my gosh. And Peter Andre came first. Oh my gosh. I was on the same night. Peter Andre was on and he did his Michael Jackson song. He was a big hit in England, wow, and he won the night and I think you know good luck to him. He did a cover song of Michael Jackson, yeah, but good for you. And he had all the moves, so I had no hope.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but fourth is nothing to sneeze at. That was pretty good. Good on you, thank you. Wow, it was hilarious. That is funny, that is great. What a great story, what a great memory. I've had a few brushes, where you know.
Speaker 2:If I had gone the other way, I wonder what would have happened. Because after the show, molly Meldrum asked me in the hallway if I had any original music, because he said I'm really interested in listening to it and doing something with you. At the time I didn't have any and I just said no, I don't do original music, I don't have any. And we just said goodbye. And there was another time when I was singing in Chinese restaurants because I was never good at waitressing, so he stuck me on the microphone instead and that seemed to work better, even though I tell you what you get your grounding on there, debra, if you can sing in front of people eating with no claps. You know, you know, yeah, you pour your heart out. I did, uh, I did an endless love by diana ross and lionel richie. You know, all you hear is knives and forks after it. But I tell you what it it gets you prepared for singing on stage it had to absolutely it does it.
Speaker 2:It prepares you for all of that yeah, To do corporate shows. I did corporate shows after that and it prepares you for all of those situations. So I was pretty lucky that I sort of had that in the beginning.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was great, absolutely Wow.
Speaker 2:It gives you confidence, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. You didn't learn the piano, though, until a few years ago.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think it was four years now, or three, I've only ever sung.
Speaker 1:So, what prompted you to then learn the piano later and not earlier?
Speaker 2:Well, I got to the point of singing live every single weekend for decades and decades. I needed to stop because it was wearing me down, because I was working full-time as well wow at the time and I was singing on the weekend, so I was younger then, so it was easier. I just sort of needed to pivot, I suppose is the word. I needed some sort of pivot um and COVID came, and then all the live music ceased because of covid.
Speaker 2:So there was nowhere to play and then it slowly trickled back. The audiences wouldn't go back to the venues, so I thought this is just all too hard. I I just can't sing to three people, so I decided that we had you know given it a good go.
Speaker 2:And I said see you later, guys. I thought, well, I've got to do something because I still had a spark inside me that I could either. I still had to sing. It's a thing that I have to do. I don't know why, but I have sung all my life. Whether it was commercials, I just used to sing commercials when I was little, on TV, all day and all night around the dinner table, and people you know used to get fed up with it. But I just sang TV commercials because I loved it, and I've just sung ever since, and so I don't know, it's something that I feel I have to do. So I had to find a way to still do that and I thought, well, I can't just sing behind a microphone, I need some sort of music. So I thought, well, everything's shut down, I will just learn the piano over the next year okay wow did that open a lot of things.
Speaker 2:Learning an instrument, that was amazing. It unlocked a part of my brain. I didn't know was there I really doing cover music. I really only looking back now I can say I was probably half a singer, because unlocking the brain with the piano it was another.
Speaker 2:It's another world yeah and I was also lucky to have the piano teacher that I got as well as a mentor. Extremely lucky he is. He does original music himself, but he also plays in deep purple cover bands he does the piano for them just so supportive he has been for the last three years.
Speaker 2:You know, when I on the first night I got there he said what are you here for? What do you want to do? And he said I'll fast track it for you. I don't know if he looked at how old I was and thought I better fast track this for this girl. She's not going to make it because you know it takes so long to do theory and things like that I didn't want to get bogged down in all the theory.
Speaker 2:I really he understood for me that I wanted to still sing but I need accompaniment. He just gave me chords and I've just done chords ever since and what's been really good for productivity is having that piano lesson. I have not missed a Thursday night piano lesson for four years.
Speaker 1:Oh, good for you.
Speaker 2:Only when he has time off, because what that does is it keeps you on. I've got to have something every week to do when I go there, okay so what are? You doing now, right? So I I will say, well, I've got these chords and I'll play these chords. And he said it's really nice. So then the next week I will put some more lyrics down and every song that I've ever done has developed in that way. He has seen all of my music right from the start.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2:The chord structure right to the end. He's actually been blown away because he's seen my progress over the last four years. So I take my little Bluetooth speakers and I say have a listen to this. And because I give him the song when it's finished. And he said to me he me, he said you know, you will start writing your own original music soon after you learn the piano. And I said no, and it was true, it happened about eight months in. He said you know, tracy, you will probably find you will start collaborating with people. And I said no, that won't happen. I won't ever do that. Because, oh god, how could I work with someone else on my music? Because I'll just take over and say, no, it's got to go like this. But oh, it's the best thing, best thing I've done, and everything he said I would do I have done. That is awesome, thank you. He's blown away by what I've been able to produce three years down the track with other people.
Speaker 1:He's really proud of what I've been able to do, you know well, you should be proud of yourself Absolutely, Because you're welcome, Because I know the collaborations that I have listened to and those that I know that you have collaborated with has. It's beautiful. So what was your? Let's talk about the music. So you have learned the piano and you've gotten that down to you know where, you're feeling pretty good and you're writing your music. What was the first collaboration you had?
Speaker 2:I had a strange email from Switzerland, from a gentleman that heard one of my songs and said would you be interested in me remixing it? And I thought, well, I don't know this guy at all. So I sort of checked him out on SoundCloud and he had a blurred face. We're not talking about Barker, by the way. I wrote him. This is another blurred face. He actually said to pass his regards to you as well, Deborah, I must say as well.
Speaker 1:We'll talk about him in a minute, so I thought my God, who is this guy?
Speaker 2:And I thought you know what his music sounds really good. And and I thought you know what his music sounds really good. I thought you know what? What is the worst that can happen? What's the worst that can happen? I thought I'll let him have a go and I'll see what he comes up with and if it's not very good, I'll just say make something up or try and get out. But somehow I don't know how, but I'll cross that when I got to it exactly. But I thought if he makes my music sound better, right now I'm all in.
Speaker 2:So I just said, yeah, sure, go for it. And so when he gave it to me back, I was blown away because, wow, that song was landscape of your life, uh, dream pop me. He was. He's a lovely guy, he's, he's very respectful and he he doesn't want to change how I sound. It was more of the music, because he said he appreciated my voice, because he said it's. I sort of reminded him of the oldest singers that are no longer around. He said, well, the singers you get today, he said they're different than me. My influences probably have done that, because I've been around for a while. I'm probably more influenced by people like Karen Carpenter and Carole King and Linda Ronstadt is one of my favorite singers.
Speaker 2:Um, yes, I suppose, and I used to do Patsy Cline and Brenda Lee you know, in the 50s and 60s, you know, rocking around the Christmas tree and I even did a bit of skier to davis as well. End of my world.
Speaker 1:I love doing all that sort of stuff that dreamy 50s sort of music, and your voice fits in there perfectly oh, thank you oh my gosh. Thank you. So so broken skies at least. Right, that's what the one and yes, that's his song as well.
Speaker 2:Landscape, landscape of your Life, went really well. It's doing really well on Spotify. He came back for more and he said this time he gave me a piece of music that I suppose was in the style that suits him the most and he said would you like to work on it? Would you be interested in writing some lyrics and doing a vocal for it? And I thought, wow, this is going to be tough, because I usually just write to my own music and that's quite organic. It all comes at once when I write my own music the melody, the lyrics, everything comes at once and the song's there.
Speaker 2:Writing lyrics for someone else's music is a new challenge he did give me the theme, the song Broken Skies about the Ukrainian war.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Because they're very close in Switzerland. All those countries around there are quite close to all the action. They're not far away, you know. True, there's only borders between them. So I thought how do I write a song like this that's going to not be literal, but sort of a different perspective that people are going to accept, because there's a lot of songs about war. I don't know, I just wanted to take it from a perspective that I could relate to, because I'm not there. I thought I'm going to take the perspective of someone that lives there and has gone out for the day and are living in a war zone and are coming back to find that their house is gone. So I thought could I put myself in their position and how would I feel? And that's where the whole song came from.
Speaker 2:I pretended I was a woman that lived in Ukraine and her house had been destroyed, got back from whatever she was doing and the song was about how she would feel at that moment. Yeah, so it was easier to do it from that perspective rather than just to try and tackle the topic of war.
Speaker 1:That was done perfectly.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We didn't want to do the video was quite hard to work out how to portray the song too, because I thought, well, I think the video can be a metaphor really for war. So I thought, oh, we use fireworks in the sky instead of the real stuff. Try and get the message in a way that's a little bit lighter, because the video, the music itself, is quite pop. Yes, it's quite strange to write a pop song about the ukraine war really, because I mean it doesn't make sense really, but the song does make a lot of sense at the same time and war doesn't make sense, no, and I suppose, um, you're trying to reach a wide audience with these messages as well, so I suppose, if you do, uh, make it, for maybe people that are a bit younger as well, then that can groove to that beat.
Speaker 2:While they're grooving, they might listen to the lyrics a bit and it might spark something exactly in them, I suppose it's. It's about the reach, isn't?
Speaker 1:it right?
Speaker 2:yes, absolutely, I'm really happy with how it turned out. It's a. Me too, it's a. It's a. I think it's a good song and gone gangbusters on Spotify already. I don't like to talk about numbers because I don't want other artists to think that just because they don't have numbers, they're not good enough.
Speaker 2:I tend to not advertise that as much as I can. Sometimes you want to like oh my God, this is fantastic. I don't know. I think it does more damage than anything and it's just an ego trick. It's like what am I doing it for? So people go oh, that's so great, tracy. Oh wow. Well, that's a lot of streams and doesn't really do anybody any good, does it?
Speaker 1:no, no, I mean, I think everybody likes to have you know the number, sometimes just to to validate themselves, or this is how far I've come well, you don't know where the numbers are coming from.
Speaker 2:Debra, do you know?
Speaker 1:you don't really know, not in this time, absolutely not. We don't. So that's the other part of it as well.
Speaker 2:We, we don't always know gee, you've got to be strong if you want to be an indie artist and you want to put out nobody's ever heard before absolutely that. That's the aim of it. Yeah, because we just won't have art at all.
Speaker 1:No, no, got to go in strong and you have to stay strong. Let's bring up our friend Barker. Yes, you collab.
Speaker 2:I'm sure he's listening at the moment. So hello, oh my gosh, I don't think he misses one of your shows.
Speaker 1:He does one of your shows. He does, he's funny, oh my gosh. And and such a nice guy. Let me tell you right, as you know, absolutely, and you collaborated on autumn with him yes, I actually.
Speaker 2:I love his stuff as well. I mean, you know, when I first heard transmissions and I'm like what, I'm like you, I'm like what is this?
Speaker 1:yeah, right exactly what ran through my head when I saw it just hijacks your brain. Like, wow, I had to go back and re-listen and I have done that, and so when I heard that you and Barker were doing a collaboration, it's like I can't wait for this. I mean, I was so excited Knowing you and knowing your music and knowing Barker and his projects. It's like this is mind boggling. It's beautiful, though.
Speaker 2:Thank you. What could possibly come out of an artist like me and an artist like Eric getting together and trying to do music. Like what could possibly happen. And that was the beauty of it. I'm going to see what would happen if my music was meshed with his, with his soundscapes. What, what could happen. Surely it would be something nobody's ever heard of before, because you just don't see it happen. Very often people tend to stay safe with what they do, and I've always wanted to do the opposite to that, because I think that's when you get something magical and special and knowing Eric's projects, I was just I.
Speaker 1:I was like couldn't wait to hit the play button on that song and the two of you just did just a great job on on autumn, like wow, yeah.
Speaker 2:Eric's great. Thank you. Yes, we're both very proud of that song. We've got great feedback on that too.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I saw that.
Speaker 2:Everybody seems to like it too.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely yeah. I've seen great feedback as well from that, from you know the comments on social media as well. Is there another one in the works, by any chance?
Speaker 2:Oh, we've just done December Key. Oh, right, right, oh, we've just done december key. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, that's just been released. It was just released on the 17th. Well, it's a hard song. It was a hard song to do because I've wanted to write a christmas song for about three years. Okay, and all the christmas stuff I see out there. Um, I just wanted to do something special in december to sort of cap the year off, and I didn't want to write a christmas song that everybody else writes de. December has always been poignant for me for a lot of reasons. I tend to look at a lot of what goes on around me, whether it's I'm doing Christmas shopping at the shops. I tend to look at the people that don't seem to have much, or all the stuff you see on TV. I think of people sitting at home that can't afford that stuff and the pressure it puts on families.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And you know the media just whirl it up as if it's this wonderful thing where you buy your wife a microwave for Christmas, or you know someone gets a new car with a big ribbon on it and it's like there must be so many people out there that you know watch this sort of stuff. It's a new car with a big ribbon on it and it's like there must be so many people out there that you know watch this sort of stuff. It's tough and it's like the have and have nots, isn't it?
Speaker 1:It is. It's a tough time of year.
Speaker 2:So I tend to I don't know. I want to do a song for people that maybe aren't finding it that great that there's other people out there that are thinking of you. You out there that are thinking of you. You're going to be okay, we'll get through it. Things happen, things change. We've just got to navigate our lives as best we can, I suppose absolutely.
Speaker 2:I just didn't want to come in with with streamers and balloons for Christmas. You know, I wanted to touch on something a bit deeper. For people it was going to be a hard song to do and I said to my piano teacher I don't know if I can do this song and he said the fact that you have said that to me, I think, means that it needs to be done. I agreed and I said I think you're right, I think it just needs to be done. Yeah, I thought who can I give this one to?
Speaker 2:I know solid Eric well, when you work with a collaborator, you just don't go with anybody. You have to find someone that gets what you want to do, yeah, and understands it, is respectful of it. And you know, I thought, yeah, it's got to go to eric this one. And he did a great job on it. He did exactly what I wanted, as I knew he would. I thought I can't just have piano and singing. I have to have some mood put behind this. Yes, he did all the soundscape. It was all about the song speaking for itself and yet, in my opinion, you have to let the song speak. It's not about my voice, it's not about how good I sing it, or you know. It's the whole package of what that song is trying to get across.
Speaker 1:And the two of you do it so well together.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. I suppose we're mature indie artists in the mid-indie area.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh my God, and just the description that I have here for that song, a seasoned reflection on family and friends is one of delicate coldness, and this time of year that just really hits home with so many people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and of course I didn't write that, did I? No, eric wrote that, I did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he does have a way. He does have a way himself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's a poet, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely One more.
Speaker 2:The Deck of Many Hands with Gio Stowe and richie warwick well, I got a vibe from geo that all the poetry that he has written in it and that I have read that he has posted. He's always wanted to have his poetry put to music and so there was a a voxen guest live show where he sort of mentioned that it has been his dream to put his poetry to music, to have an artist interpret it what it would sound like in song. He said it's been a dream of his and I thought I've got to help this guy do it. You know he does so many for other people in the indie community. He has the deck of bands so he makes cards for bands that are like a deck card and you can have the whole collection of that year or of that season and he does it for free and he's done it for years and I just wanted to give something back to him.
Speaker 2:So I thought surely I could turn one of his songs into poetry, into songs oh my gosh, he's got so much poetry and the two that he gave me to choose from, one was quite a dark and the other one resonated me. So I chose the second one because it was about childhood and I could resonate with the childhood one that the innocence of childhood, and how, when you're young and the whole world is ahead of you, you do see things a bit differently. And then you get older and you see things for what they are it's. It's all about losing that innocence when you're probably at your most creative when you're young, and I thought I can resonate with that, so I just put a melody to it. I turned the structure on its head. It made more sense for me to actually do the last verse of the poem first.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, it set up the story.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, and he was fine with that because he said you can do whatever you want with this song, which was lovely. Yeah, because, as an artist, whatever you want with this song, which was lovely. Yeah, because, as an artist, you want to. I keep calling myself an artist. I don't know if I'm an artist, you are, you are. You know it sounds a bit pretentious, you know. I just thought what could I do with it? And he just said do what you want. And I did. I just put a melody line to it needs a bit of guitar, like from the Wild West or something. It was that sort of song. And I thought, well, who is a good friend of Gio's, that's known him for a long time, that Gio would appreciate being on the song. And I thought, well, richie has been around for a long time. And I thought I think Richie is the guy because I've always admired his work and it would be quite lovely to have him on something that I've done as well. I'd be really appreciative of that.
Speaker 2:So he was really great and he put that beautiful guitar down because I didn't want it to sound like a normal banging guitar and I thought if anyone's going to put something guitar wise on there, yeah that's going to sound a little bit out there. It's going to be him there. There are a couple of others, probably um, entropy and motion. He could have done something a bit outrageous on there as well, and it was just lovely and geo just absolutely loved it oh my, my gosh. It was just great to do that for him. The song is there for all time now, and it's been done.
Speaker 1:I love that story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, it gives you a lot of satisfaction when you do things for other people.
Speaker 1:It helps you oh absolutely what your music does for people and the feelings that we get from your music and at different times in our lives, you know, music has is always this well, for those that love music and for those who are the indie artists I mean, music is something that we all turn to for happy times, bad times, graduations, anniversaries, birthdays, and then you know for, I think, what you do or what you are doing with the collaborations. It just takes it to another level too. Kudos again to you, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's good to get another person's point of view on a piece of work.
Speaker 1:Right Sure. And what's the best part of collaborating with another indie artist?
Speaker 2:The songs on their own, without them, would be totally different. Definitely not as good, I feel. Without them would be totally different, definitely not as good, I feel. And when you have another human element in there, that give their interpretation of what you've written and how they feel the song, that's what community is about, isn't it? Yes?
Speaker 1:absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's not about being alone. You can't do it alone. It has the potential to turn the song into something you've never heard, because you've got two different people who were brought up in different times Well, probably the same times, but had different experiences. Maybe they're bringing all that to a different way of thinking about things. Yes, so, that's where the magic is, I think.
Speaker 1:I agree.
Speaker 2:Otherwise you're just getting one person's perspective on something.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and you are able to, you know, turn it around and work with other people, which I don't think everybody, but I don't think everybody has that, I guess, ability to work with another person on a level that perhaps that you do with, with the other indie artists that you've worked with. You know, sometimes I feel myself I don't think I could. I could, I mean I might, I don't know if I could do that then you just got to, um, try it.
Speaker 2:You've just got to. You've definitely got to pick the right person, though that's it. I just I wouldn't pick anybody. I wouldn't pick just anybody. I get a. I get a vibe from. It's not why I do it. I got to mean something. I've got to get a vibe off of them that definitely would have to be they have the same ideals as me, people that sort of, because I mean you're virtually putting your heart on the plate and you're going there, you go. What can you do with this?
Speaker 2:right, and you don't want it, you don't want that person to crush it. You know what do you think of it and what do you think the song could be right you put to it as well. And so you've really got to trust the other person as well. You've got to feel confident that you know they're going to respect you for pouring your heart out a bit like that in your song and your lyrics. You have to trust them.
Speaker 2:I've only gone with people that sort of got me what I'm about as well, and they're usually people that know of my music and get an idea of what I'm about, I think too, because I mean if a collaborator, because I do, I do get lots of emails, people wanting to work with me, but if I'm not feeling that it would work, you don't have that feeling from the beginning, it's not going to work.
Speaker 1:I would feel, or you know, I would think that it's.
Speaker 2:It's more of why they want to. I want to know why they want to work with me as well. Why do you want to? And sometimes it's like well, when I do a song, it's usually me saying I think this would be good for this person, I think they might get something out of it as well. That's what I do with collaborations, because they mean something to me, they mean everything to me. The way the songs have turned out don't take that lightly and I don't just litter around and but it means I'm very lucky to have found these. People for sure feel very lucky. The music that has come out this year from yeah, it's been a spectacular year.
Speaker 1:Thank you, you are welcome. So what is coming up for 2025? Do you have other collaborations, projects that you're working on?
Speaker 2:I tend to go with what I feel at any one time. I don't put pressure on myself to do anything I do. I'm actually, over Christmas, going to get some piano together for someone else that wants to release something they've written.
Speaker 1:Oh fun.
Speaker 2:That they will be doing and I'm going to help them with that. I have already got another song for next year that I started in November. All the other collabs that I started during oh, because I did that one with, I did the Walk with um, I did the walk with oh right, right and Eloy, which are, oh yeah, charles, see, these producers have these songs, and they're all like, okay, it's December and November, we're ready. And I'm like, well, everything came out at once in November and December because you know, they just got to do their stuff and it's like three new releases in December. It's like I haven't you know. So, oh, that was a lovely collaboration because, um, I've known Eloy and His Theory a long time since I started. Actually, they were one of my, my first supporters. They have supported me a lot over the last three years and I know I just love his theories, music. I am Eloi. They're based in Finland.
Speaker 2:They're a duo and they've been in the indie community for a long time and they haven't collaborated with anybody yet and I sort of thought well, I wonder what it would sound like if we got together and collaborated on his theories. One of his theories songs. So he had the walk up for grabs for anybody that wanted to collaborate on it and I love a challenge.
Speaker 2:The lyrics came just straight away and I did some of the lyrics and I said to Eloise I said let's work on it. And I said you write your own stuff and I'll write mine and we'll see if we can put it all together. Then Eloise took it back to produce the song. Boy did they do a good job. And I mean we had his theories backbone, we took out his multi instruments, we took out what we didn't sort of think worked with us because there was a lot of instruments in that song.
Speaker 1:Oh my god. Let me tell you guys at Eloy gee.
Speaker 2:They um, took it back to the studio and they did all the mixing. They did the rest, they did all the mixing on the voices, they did all the put their own music in there as well. Oh my gosh, they just did a fantastic job and I'm so happy for them because they were so happy at how it turned out. I just love that. Hopefully now that they will reach out to other people and make, maybe collaborate with more people.
Speaker 1:That would be awesome.
Speaker 2:Because the song just turned out so well. It did, it did you just don't know, debra, how it's going to go. You think this is can all go to hell in a handbasket. You know, you. Just you just don't know no.
Speaker 1:I'm sure, I'm sure, oh my gosh, but the end result was fantastic. I mean, charles is another great one, he is another great indie artist.
Speaker 2:And they made me do a video to it as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, you did.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was not happy about that, but I had to do it, didn't I?
Speaker 1:I had to do Flying Flag?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely oh of course, I will dance on a video and sing with the sun in my face.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'll do that Good for you. I will walk along.
Speaker 2:But you know what, though, I'm so glad I did it because it's such a lovely thing to keep. It's a memento really.
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely A memento over the last couple of years.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and us coming together in the end.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Let me ask you this what advice would you give a new indie artist coming into the indie community?
Speaker 2:Okay, just to probably there's lots and lots and lots of things probably to just make sure that they're writing what they want to write, just to keep writing what they want to write. Don't write for the listener. I just don't think you should write for the listener what you think the listener wants. I think they should write what they feel, what sort of music they want to put out there, and stay true to it, because it just can't be wrong If it's just coming from you. It can't be wrong because it's you.
Speaker 1:Agreed.
Speaker 2:Not coming from anyone else. It's from you, so there can't be anything wrong with it. You, so there can't be anything wrong with it. No, you know, just don't get caught up in the numbers. Keep going and make sure you're in it for the right reasons and just be authentic.
Speaker 1:I suppose I like that. Yeah, tracy, thank you so much for joining me today. I have.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's all right I have enjoyed our conversation oh so much, thank you, and thank you for all you do for all of us as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're welcome, Great station. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2:And thank you for your support too. Oh you know your little comments on YouTube and that it's all very much appreciated.
Speaker 1:Oh, thank you and.
Speaker 2:Bandcamp. You've even bought songs on Bandcamp as well.
Speaker 1:You're a winner. Thank you, you and band camp. You've even bought songs on band camp as well. I do thank you. I do all the little things I possibly can to to support the indie artists because, one, I love you all and two, I know it's a passion I love to support, to support everybody that I possibly can thank you very much.
